Trail ethics education.

Land Use, Trail Info, etc

Postby Sewie » Fri May 25, 2007 1:40 pm

BTW folks -

Packing it out is really not as bad as you are all making it out to be. :roll: If you use a wag bag, you are already double-bagging the waste. Bring some scented bathroom garbage bags and bag it again if you want. Then just throw it in your garbage bag and put it up on your roofrack (to bake in the sun :where: ;) ) or tie it off the back of your rig. You won't even notice it while you're in your truck. Then when you're off the trail, toss it in the first dumpster you come across.
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Postby Mark » Fri May 25, 2007 1:57 pm

Sewie wrote:You won't even notice it while you're in your truck.


Depends on what I had to eat and or drink the night before :o :lol:

I agree, sounds disgusting, but honestly it's not much different than dealing with diapers if you have kids :yup:
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Postby beavis » Fri May 25, 2007 2:07 pm

not much different than dealing with diapers if you have kids


Or old parents :o :o :o
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Postby Mark » Fri May 25, 2007 2:10 pm

beavis wrote:Or old parents :o :o :o


Oh thanks a lot, thought I had pretty much avoided the whole diaper thing :x
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Postby Sewie » Fri May 25, 2007 2:48 pm

beavis wrote:
not much different than dealing with diapers if you have kids


Or old parents :o :o :o


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Alec W » Fri May 25, 2007 4:17 pm

beavis wrote:
not much different than dealing with diapers if you have kids


Or old parents :o :o :o

You’re getting up there Mr. Bondage :lol: :lol: :lol: :P :P ;)
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Postby beavis » Fri May 25, 2007 4:23 pm

Those must be some heavy duty changing tables :o :o

I wonder if they come in Black? :duh:
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Postby ToxicTurtle » Fri May 25, 2007 5:17 pm

Being from the East coast, I can't even imagine any area of ours being so "overused".. or maybe just used, to a point that we would be having a problem with poo in the backcountry... and the wierd thing is that within two hours of most of our most popular roads/trails live over 30 million people. Those people hike,mt bike,ride OHMs, quads and even go wheelin on occasion. Errosion is often our biggest concern.
However, for those who are in the position to need to pack out the poo, Dell Albright has some stuff, that some of must know about.. I don't remember the name of it but it starts out as a powder that when added to poo, sort of congeals and makes hauling the poo much easier. Eliminates the oder, the .... uuhhh... other un-niceties of having to haul poo out of the woods. Its works great in conjunction with a Bumper Dumper.
I'm pretty sure its on Del's site...

Another thing... Aside from a few places in the northern most reaches of Maine.. there aren't any roads/trails long enough for us to be out on for longer than, say a few hours and they are all close, reletively speaking, to civilization.

I have wheeled several times out west. Logandale, Death Valley, another place just outside Vegas...(??) and have always been completely enthralled with the beauty, etc.. and its just seems odd that with so much land and , generally speaking, less population density, that there would be the problems you have with poo, etc...

I would be interested in a disertation, taken over on another new thread to touch on the differences found between east and west coast wheeling... well, more specifically New England to about the Carolinas,Tenn,KY area and the quad state area of NM, CO, UT, NV and parts of southern Cali.

If someone wants to start another thread, I'll be back in a while after raking the yard... Otherwise.. I'll start it when I'm back in... :lol: :lol:

Talk soon,
David Brill
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Postby Rod » Fri May 25, 2007 5:31 pm

Human waste on the trail is not a problem out here. We're only discussing it because it's a point made in the Tread Lightly training.

Based on your post I gather that some TL guidelines are flexible depending on circumstances?
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Postby Sewie » Fri May 25, 2007 7:25 pm

ToxicTurtle wrote:However, for those who are in the position to need to pack out the poo, Dell Albright has some stuff, that some of must know about.. I don't remember the name of it but it starts out as a powder that when added to poo, sort of congeals and makes hauling the poo much easier. Eliminates the oder, the .... uuhhh... other un-niceties of having to haul poo out of the woods. Its works great in conjunction with a Bumper Dumper.
I'm pretty sure its on Del's site...

That would be the PETT system. I linked to it a couple pages back.

I have wheeled several times out west. Logandale, Death Valley, another place just outside Vegas...(??) and have always been completely enthralled with the beauty, etc.. and its just seems odd that with so much land and , generally speaking, less population density, that there would be the problems you have with poo, etc...

The issue really gets more attention in NorCal, specifically trails like the Rubicon, Fordyce, etc., where you generally spend a couple days on the trail and there are no facilites.

I would be interested in a disertation, taken over on another new thread to touch on the differences found between east and west coast wheeling... well, more specifically New England to about the Carolinas,Tenn,KY area and the quad state area of NM, CO, UT, NV and parts of southern Cali.

If someone wants to start another thread, I'll be back in a while after raking the yard... Otherwise.. I'll start it when I'm back in... :lol: :lol:


The differences in terrain, etc in the different regions is an interesting topic. In fact, its one of the reasons I've put so many miles on my rig. :lol: Hell, I've done hardcore rock-crawling, scenic shelf/ridge trails, sand dunes, desert runs, snow runs....and that's just in CA. 8) :P
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Postby ToxicTurtle » Fri May 25, 2007 8:21 pm

Rod wrote:Human waste on the trail is not a problem out here. We're only discussing it because it's a point made in the Tread Lightly training.

Based on your post I gather that some TL guidelines are flexible depending on circumstances?


There are some of the TL guidelines that border on the Leave No Trace program. In my twenty years of wheeling, camping, etc.. I have only needed to poop in the woods once and I buried it.

There are also things that we would not ever do on a town road or state forest road that on private land we would have no problem doing... IE: If we are cutting a trail on private land, we will often design in alternate routes around the hardcore lines/obstacles. However, on a designated town road, if you can get up an obstacle, you are getting pulled, winched, etc.. or you're parking your rig or heading back out (our trail ratings, etc keep this from happening on organized run 99% of the time) Unfortunately, there are those out there who will come to an obstacle that they and their rig can not make and they will simply plow down some trees, underbrush, cut trees, etc and go around the obstacle.

Also, also... If one were to speak with Del Albright... he has a bit different take on Tread Lightly! He and some others in the western organizations feel as though TL has given away too much and has compromised too much and is almost an apology to the antis. Mother Nature is rather resilient and can often take more than people think. Different parts of the country, there is often much that is very ... well... different... ;)
I sit on the North American Motorized Recreation Coucil with Del Albright, Don and Carol Jensen, Helen Baker, Don Amador, Jack Welch, Jason Tolleson, Stewart Gosswein, John Stewart, Robert Reed, Pete Nonis, Roy Denner and many others... There are probably several names on there that some of you recognize... Many of them feel the same way.. AAMOF, it was a topic of discussion about two years ago at our annual meeting.

Case in point: A road here, if left untouched... not unmaintained but, nothing, nada.. no human contact... within 5 years, it will be just discernable as an old road. Give it a good ten, 15 years and there will be trees growing in the middle of it and nearly impassable (dues to the trees mostly) There might be some evidence that will allow one to see there was a road there.. but, little. Again, in portions of the west, that is totally not the case... Some of that crypto-biotic soil, if trammeled, will remain so for many years and roads that settlers used to cut through/over the rocks of say Utah, are still visible today.. even if people didn't drive on them in Jeeps/Hummers/Toys/etc..

But... I think those are points for the differnces and similarities of the East/West thread... soon to be started... well... It might end up being started tomorrow morning... :lol:

Talk soon,
David Brill
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Postby Mark » Fri May 25, 2007 10:32 pm

Sewie wrote:The differences in terrain, etc in the different regions is an interesting topic.


You mean like our lack of it down here :cry: ;)
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Re: Trail ethics education.

Postby flyin6 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:53 am

Thanks for the "tread lightly" referral, good stuff...
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Re: Trail ethics education.

Postby flyin6 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:43 am

Just completed the on-line 101 course. Funny, but I've off-roaded for years without taking that course...
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Re: Trail ethics education.

Postby KS Trekker » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:41 am

I think a lot of us toss around the term "TREAD Lightly" but we don't really know means. I would recommend taking about 20 minutes to do the course. You even get a nifty certificate suitable for framing. 8)
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